How Medtronic’s Neurovascular business is using AI and other new technology to save stroke patients

September 15, 2021

Daniel Volz, the newly named head of Medtronic’s neurovascular business, explains how the company is developing game-changing technologies into devices that will help people who have suffered a stroke or aneurysm. Volz reviews the newest addition to Medtronic’s pipeline as well as its innovative deal with, an artificial intelligence provider.

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Tom Salemi (00:00):

Hey, everyone this is Tom Salemi of DeviceTalks. Welcome to our newest member of the DeviceTalks podcast family, it's called MedtronicTalks... Our constant search to find new ways to bring new insights in the MedTech industry led us to the find five folks at Medtronic. They've agreed to make their senior leaders available to us and to you. In each episode, we'll discuss the opportunities and challenges facing one of Med Tech's, clear leaders. So you'll have an inside view on what makes Medtronic go. We'll ask the questions Medtronic will provide the answers and our great network of sponsors makes it all possible. So sit back, hop on a treadmill, take the dog for a walk, whatever you do when you listen to a great podcast and let's listen to how Medtronic is getting the job done, let's go.

Tom Salemi (00:43):

Hey everyone, this is Tom Salemi of DeviceTalks. Welcome to this episode of the MedtronicTalks podcast. Today, we're speaking with Dan Volz. Dan is president of Medtronic Neurovascular group. He took over as president in March 2021. Prior to that, he was vice president of Medtronic America's MITG group. So his new into leading the neurovascular business, but he certainly knows his stuff and I'm sure you'll enjoy this conversation. But before we begin our interview with Dan Volz, I'd like to bring in our sponsor of this episode of the Medtronic talks podcast Resonetics, I'm speaking with Kevin Hartke. Kevin is the chief technology officer at Resonetics. Kevin, thanks for joining us. Tell us a bit about Resonetics.

Kevin Hartke (01:33):

Resonetics is headquartered in Nashua, New Hampshire, with a total of 11 locations across the US, Costa Rica, Switzerland and Israel. We have 1300 plus team members with over 10% of those individuals holding a technical degree. We are a 100% focused on the MedTech market and we provide industry leading advanced engineering and manufacturing solutions and raw material, components and sub-assemblies. And our technology focus in thin wall stainless steel tubing and precious metal marker bands. We provide services and laser processing, nitinol processing, metal fabrication and smart device sensors. We provide additional capability and services and complete device design and development, and also finished clean room assembly. And then finally we have an in-house automated solutions group, which designs and manufacturers all of our own capital equipment.

Tom Salemi (02:23):

All right you'll hear more from Kevin Hartke, a little later in the podcast, If you want to find out more information about Resonetics, go to Well, Dan Volz, welcome to the podcast.

Dan Volz (02:37):

Thanks Tom, it’s great to be with you.

Tom Salemi (02:39):

Prior to my pushing record, we went through the exciting adventure you had, relocating to Irvine, we can skip back into that in a moment. But why not start at the very beginning and just understand, how was it that you found your way into the MedTech industry and where did you get your start?

Dan Volz (02:55):

I listened to your interview with one of my colleagues, Gio and I can't lay claim being a basketball coach in any form, but-

Dan Volz (03:08):

I think I have a pretty romantic story. My dad's best friend was a medical recruiter and I was in my early teens and he was talking to me about the medical device industry and in particular sales in the medical device industry. And it just resonated a lot with me, the opportunity to understand anatomy and physiology to be in the surgical arena with really bright, talented people. The opportunity to help people that I think stuck most squarely with me then, and seemed like something that I wanted to get involved in an area where I felt like I was making a difference and I couldn't have projected how real that would be or how meaningful that would be. And so I started with US Surgical in 1999, which is out of Norwalk, Connecticut. US Surgical became a part of Tyco Healthcare. Tyco Healthcare then separated and became Covidien. Covidien was acquired by the Medtronic. So that's my 22 years in a nutshell. Started with cutting grass for a medical recruiter and here we are today in Irvine, California.

Tom Salemi (04:29):

That's outstanding, so how did you... What was the path you took into the industry? Did you pursue marketing or sales or-

Dan Volz (04:37):

I came in through sales and lived in the Northeast of the US. And fortunately we're based out of Norwalk, Connecticut, where I could toggle between sales and marketing roles which was wonderful. And when I got into marketing, was when I really started to develop a taste for strategy and longer term business strategy. And while I love the execution side of the business, I really enjoy the construction of the longer-term plan of where we're headed and then making sure that we execute against that plan. But I came in initially through the sales organization, 22 years has been split pretty evenly. I'd love to say that I engineered it this way, but half of that time has been in global business ownership roles, deciding what to build and who to buy and the global financial performance and the other half has been in regional commercial role. So really both sides of the equation and just a wonderful 22 years.

Tom Salemi (05:45):

And you assume the leadership role, the president role at the Neurovascular business just earlier this year, how did that switch come about? And then is this an area where you've had interest in the past?

Dan Volz (05:57):

Yeah, I have. So I mentioned I was with Covidien. And Covidien acquired a company named ev3, which was a neurovascular business-

Tom Salemi (06:08):


Dan Volz (06:09):

And so I wasn't attached to that business at the time, I was on the surgical side of the house, but I looked at this business with quite a bit of envy. It was fast growth, it was exciting, it was innovative and it was loaded with purpose and you didn't have to be in the business to realize that's what was in that space. And so I really did look at it with a bit of envy. I was leading the Americas for MITG, which is one of Medtronic's four groups prior to our reorganization. I was running the Americas for MITG when this opportunity opened up and it was a pretty easy yes, for me.

Tom Salemi (06:54):

Great point about the neurovascular space. And is the excitement and the immediacy of it come from just how essential time is, when it comes to saving a patient? Is that sort of... Does that necessity to get to patients and treat patients quickly in the emergency room and having a stroke or whatever sort of problem. Does that sort of carry back to all throughout, that everyone is interested in ensuring that... Everyone sees speed as essential, and everyone is moving at that pace. Is there a carry over there?

Dan Volz (07:29):

Yeah, for sure. And I'll even back up a little bit more. Stroke touches just about every one of us in some way. So 25% of us will have a stroke. And two out of three households will experience a stroke, greater than 90% of us will have a family member that experiences stroke. So you and I, unfortunately, in anybody listening to this podcast has a really good chance that most of us will be, or have been touched by a stroke at some point. So there's massive global reach to that. So that's the starting point and when you look at the number of strokes that occur during the course of a year, there'll be 14 million strokes that happen this year and only two million of those will be treated-

Tom Salemi (08:14):


Dan Volz (08:15):

That 12 million strokes around the world that don't have access to care for some reason. One of those reasons is speed. That we didn't get to them quickly enough and you articulated that really well. There is a phrase, "time is brain," is paramount in the stroke space. And for every second that you don't treat blood flow to the brain or your stoppage of blood flow to the brain, you lose about 30,000 brain cells and almost 2 million brain cells every minute. So time is brain is real and the longer you wait, the greater, the negative impact of that stroke is going to be. So, half of it is figuring out how to speed access to care. And then the other is just basic access to care, that there are parts of the world that they don't have stroke treatment at all. So that's the two-pronged approach. We've got to innovate inside the therapy and make sure that the two million that get care, get the best care they could possibly get.

Tom Salemi (09:20):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Dan Volz (09:21):

And on the other side of the equation, it's how do we speed up care to make sure that people get into the lab as quickly as possible. And how do we reach the corners of the earth where stroke care doesn't exist at all today? That's certainly a part of our Mission.

Tom Salemi (09:35):

It certainly is a unique patient group in that, with the other businesses, with diabetes for example, you have people who manage their diabetes, you have a CRM, you have people who have Atrial fibrillation. It becomes a patient population who know what they have. Where a stroke is so binary, you go from being not a stroke victim or person who's had a stroke to immediately becoming part of that community that doesn't really exist. How is that different in terms of engaging with... I don't even know if you engage with patients in a neurovascular space, because it's like a flip of a switch to go from being not part of your community to part of your community in literally seconds.

Dan Volz (10:19):

Yeah. And so we do have to engage and because identification is such a critical piece of this-

Tom Salemi (10:26):


Dan Volz (10:26):

And there's a broad global campaign called FAST. If your face is drooping, if your arm is numb, your speech is slurred, it's time to call emergency services. And so the patient engagement component is on the identification piece. And there's a level of complexity there too, because 20% of strokes occur during the middle of the night. So the patient wakes up and is experiencing some of these symptoms. And so yes, there is a patient engagement component, it's really focused on the identification of when it happens.

Tom Salemi (11:01):

Is that 20% in the middle of the night or Is that just a factor of that being 20% of the 24 hour calendar? There's no-

Dan Volz (11:12):


Tom Salemi (11:13):

Interesting. So how do you... Well, what is the neurovascular market look like in terms of competition? There are a lot of players in this space, a lot of larger companies and a lot of smaller companies too, who are creating retrieval devices and other tech. How do you sort of... How does Medtronic operate in this sort of environment? I would take a quick break to speak with Kevin Hartke of Resonetics. Kevin, how does Resonetics help companies in the R&D space? And what are you doing to help development engineers?

Kevin Hartke (11:47):

Yes, Tom. So we offer development engineers access to our Lightspeed lab. And the Lightspeed lab provides quick turn prototyping services, employing over a 100 engineers and technicians with dedicated processing and support equipment across nine locations. But the primary focus of this team is to shorten the design cycle. And we do this through engineer-to-engineer communication, quick turn quoting and prototype delivery. And if your device development is successful and requires volume manufacturing, we provide a direct path to production through our phase gate transfer process.

Tom Salemi (12:20):

And finally, I know Resonetics has invested heavily in developing new technologies, but what are some of the unique capabilities that you're working on that will benefit the medical device industry?

Kevin Hartke (12:31):

Yeah. Tom, I'd like to highlight a few of our latest technology developments that support the neurovascular market. Now, the first is MicrAblate 3D Laser Machining. This technology employs state of the art, ultra-fast lasers and enables the fabrication of 3D components that are on the scale of a grain of rice. So we can make these really small components in a wide range of material options that are including nitinol, precious metals, stainless steels, and most polymers. Now, the second technology I'd like to highlight is Nitinol processing. Now, this technology has been around MedTech for quite a while, but we have developed a set of next generation tools. There are automated solution group that really pushed this forward and give us the customer and next generation or next level of capability.

Kevin Hartke (13:14):

The first tool in that tool set is the ultra-fast laser cutting system, that provides near net shape parts, with no thermal damage and minimizes downstream processing. And so we support heat setting with automated liquid salt baths and they provide superior heat set parameters, in really tight control on material AAF transition temperatures. And finally, we have automated electric polishing, which enables optimize throughput and really good process control. Now, in addition to the 3D MicrAblate and Nitinol processing, we have other technologies and capabilities that support the neurovascular market. And these include laser cut tubing, which support customized catheter delivery systems. Centerless grinding, which support guidewire and delivery system components and laser welding, which provide precise assembly and joining of implants and delivery systems.

Tom Salemi (14:04):

All right. Well thanks Kevin Hartke for joining us on this episode of the Medtronic talks podcast. And thanks of course, to Resonetics for sponsoring, you can find out more information Now back to our conversation with Dan Volz... How does Medtronic operate in this sort of environment?

Dan Volz (14:25):

Yeah. It's a high growth, low penetration space. So not surprisingly, there's a lot of businesses that want to get into that space and say, it's a rare bird in that regard. And that it's growing at a very healthy rate, with a number of classes of trade inside of the business that are all growing at very healthy rates and that penetration is... The therapy is only about 10% penetrated, so there's a lot of opportunity and a lot of obligations quite honestly, in the space. So not surprisingly, there's a number of players and a good amount of that has emerged just over the last few years. So Medtronic played a pretty significant role in the stroke space through clinical study. And five landmark studies that published in 2015, that showed that you could go in and get the clot. And if you had an Acute ischemic stroke and had a clot that got thrown up to the brain and it stopped blood flow, that you could go in and get it.

Dan Volz (15:34):

And that was a major event in the stroke space. And I'm proud of the fact that Medtronic had a lot to do with that. And so we still enjoy that distinction. And in this market, we've got the number one stent retriever, that device that goes up and gets the clot. We've got the number one flow diversion portfolio, that's the sleeve that you put at the base of an aneurysm to prevent that aneurysm from bursting. We've that's the number one liquid embolic, which is an injectable in the event that you're looking to include some of the vascular inside the brain. So we've got a significant presence from a clinical history standpoint. We continue to lead from the front in clinical study and design. And from a portfolio standpoint, continuing to iterate on the market leading technologies that we have and also invested in therapy innovation. And trying to take that care that I talked about before to an even better place.

Tom Salemi (16:40):

Talk a bit about how you innovate in the space? But maybe looking first at clinical trials, how is it? Is it difficult or different in putting together those trials given that... Again, you can't recruit patients who are going to have a stroke and who need treatment. How do you build a clinical evidence, you need to demonstrate that the new technology you're developing works?

Dan Volz (17:07):

Yeah. And it's a pillar of this business for sure and the space overall. And one of the things that I've been most pleased with since moving into this role a couple of months ago is, the level of intimacy that exists between the physician community and the business.

Tom Salemi (17:25):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Dan Volz (17:27):

It's extremely unique. And I think that has a lot to do with the fact that it is still a relatively young space. There's still a lot to be done, and the physician community wants to be involved in advancing the care. So I've been connected over four months with a remarkable number of physicians to... Or just as interested in talking to me as I wasn't talking to them and that's a group that... Because they want to talk about, "well, here's what I think we could do." And every one of those conversation produces the two or three most important things that I should do to move this space forward and now that's a gift. And I love that and enjoy all of those conversations, but the clinical studies we build with the physician community and make sure that it has end points that are going to be meaningful and enrollment that will be meaningful. And so we have a terrific medical affairs group, as a part of Medtronic who work very closely with the physician community in study design.

Tom Salemi (18:33):

Well, that's a good point about the physicians. I was going to ask that next in that, I would think that because... Again, going back to speed being of the essence and time equaling brain, that they become accustomed to using a certain tool, and they don't have the time or the ability to relate to get to know another one. Obviously the retraining that where patient is involved, but I imagine if you have a tool that works, that you're very reluctant to give it up. How difficult is it to get new tools and technology into the hands of the physicians? It sounds like they're hungry for it and they're quick adopters. If there's something new to be had.

Dan Volz (19:11):

They are. And they're, innovators-

Tom Salemi (19:14):


Dan Volz (19:15):

This space is built, stands on the shoulders of innovators from a clinical perspective. And so there is a tremendous appetite to try new technologies and to lean in on the front end of new technology development. That's where I talk about those ideas that come in. There's no shortage of concepts that are out there within the physician community and if we have a new technology... Quite frankly, if competitors of ours have a new technology, the willingness to try it is high, because these are innovators. They're not physicians that land on something and say, "this is it, I'm satisfied forever." They're constantly looking to advance the art and give most technologies the opportunity to do something special. So, it's another pretty powerful dynamic within the space of the physician community's willingness and desire to try new technology, which for us as an innovator, that's a great place for us to be.

Tom Salemi (20:23):

And where does the innovation come from in terms of the... What are you focusing on advancing as part of the devices? Is it the... And I imagine the answer is going to be all the above, but is there a lot of progress to be made in how the retrieval elements are designed to remove a clot? Is it more in the area where the physicians are engaging the device outside the body and controlling the retrieval device? Or is it even something that I'm not seeing? And I think we'll hit upon some of it when we talk about Artificial Intelligence, but focusing more on the hardware. Where are we seeing those advances, is it materials? Is it design of products? Is it a little bit of both?

Dan Volz (21:08):

It is a little bit of both. So we just recently launched our pipeline device, which is the sleeve, that goes at the base of the aneurysm that has a surface modification on it to reduce material Thrombogenicity, So the ability of a clot to form. That was a surface modification on the device itself and a wonderful new technology. At that time the end effective side, we also innovate on the delivery aspect of it. The physician most often is going up through the groin, finding their way through the vascular highway, up to the brain, massively challenging position and amazing to watch. The hands of a neural interventionalist navigating that highway up to the point of a clot. And so we innovate on the delivery aspect of it. We just launched the first radial access device.

Dan Volz (22:08):

So instead of going through the groin, go in through the wrist, because in some instances you have a cleaner shot there. It's also better for the patient recoverability, is better from the wrist versus the groin. So we are advancing in the delivery aspect as well. And that's just in the therapy side of things. Innovation takes a number of different forms from the technology that I just described, to clinical innovation, regulatory innovation, business model innovation, there's so much to be done when you think about that patient care continuum from diagnosis to rehabilitation. The therapy just in the middle of that.

Tom Salemi (22:53):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Dan Volz (22:54):

That there's a patient journey that starts from identifying the problem all the way to, how do you help recover from it? That is all part of the stroke space that we need to think about and is ripe for innovation at a number of those stops along the way.

Tom Salemi (23:11):

And just before the therapy, I referenced this already that you partnered with Viz.AI, I think two years ago. To introduce an Artificial Intelligence component, which a lot of medical device sectors are doing and touting the strength of, and there certainly are applications there. But in watching the video that you had on Viz.AI and what it brings to the treatment equation, it's really fascinating, it really does seem to sort of again, deliver care faster. Talk a bit about the partnership, if you would, with Viz.AI and how does it help get treatment to stroke patients more quickly?

Dan Volz (23:49):

Yeah. And this is all part of the time is brain discussion we were having before-

Tom Salemi (23:54):


Dan Volz (23:55):

From the time that patient arrives at a local hospital, gets a CT scan. Images are produced, images have to get read and interpreted, communication then has to carry from that point forward and very often that patient is at a center that can't perform the mechanical thrombectomy. So they then have to be transferred to another location, all of that eating up time. So this AI technology and wonderful technology company is a software package that sits on the CT scan, using artificial intelligence. It identifies when a clot exists and it communicates to caregivers to let them know that it's coming in and just speeds up that communication. It also has a technology called Viz Hub that allows that team of caregivers to communicate with one another. So when the patient arrives, they're ready for it. So it really is a wonderful technology and a really good partnership for us. And they have a number of different modules that they're working on, including one for aneurysm identification. So there's a number of areas where we can partner together, but clearly artificial intelligence in the space will play a significant role.

Tom Salemi (25:19):

And you mentioned earlier on and I want to make sure I'm not missing anything. So I've focused primarily on clot retrieval systems, but are there other parts of neurovascular that I'm missing of your business that are treating people at a different point along the timeline?

Dan Volz (25:37):

Yeah, there are. So there's two ways you can get a stroke. One is, Acute ischemic stroke, which means through a clot and that's what we were just talking about. And the other is from an aneurysm bursting, so you get a weakening in a vessel wall, and it creates a balloon of sorts that fills with blood. And over time as blood continues to push into that sack, it runs the risk of rupturing. So for us we want to prevent that aneurysm from rupturing. And so we'll go in and fill that aneurysm with material to stabilize it. We'll also put that sleeve that I talked about, before it's called flow diversion technology and that just makes sure that blood rushes past the aneurysm and doesn't press up into that aneurysm, that's our pipeline technology. So really two sides of the house, the Acute ischemic stroke, which occurs throw a clot and the other is the hemorrhagic stroke, which occurs when you have a burst aneurysm.

Tom Salemi (26:47):

So looking forward, where does growth come from for the neurovascular business? Are you looking to get these tools into the hands of more facilities? Because as you pointed out, there are some that have the ability to treat these patients, some that don't. Is your goal to make sure there are more who can treat these patients? Where does the growth come from?

Dan Volz (27:11):

Yeah. So we had a near and dear to my heart. We had a pretty major milestone just before the end of our fiscal year, our year runs May through April. And about three weeks before the end of our year... And we have a metric for an algorithm for arriving at this metric. And we helped treat 250,000 patients in the last 12 months, which was such a great event for us and had a big global celebration around that, invited internal employees and the physician community and it was a real awesome event. But to your question now, we've got to figure out how we can double that impact over the next few years. And there's a good amount of that, that will happen inside of the therapy and that we have good line of sight too, of how we're going to continue to advance when the patient gets into the lab.

Dan Volz (28:09):

And how do we make sure they get the best result possible. Much of the growth is going to come outside of that and how do we help that patient from diagnosis to lab gets the therapy. As I mentioned before, there's 14 million that'll occur in 12... Don't get to the lab and so our growth will come from quite a bit of market development. There was just a bill that was passed in the state of Ohio, around stroke protocol. Fascinating that at this point if you have protocol around trauma, but you don't have protocol around stroke. And so you're starting to see states lean into, how do we make sure that we have protocol around the number one, number two cause of disability in the country. So that's really exciting and our government affairs plays as much a role as we can, and in helping to drive states toward that place.

Dan Volz (29:13):

And quite honestly, helping the states facilitate protocol development. Outside of the US, you've got geographies where it's 0%. And so we've got a program called immediate, which is establishing stroke care at a very basic level within institutions. We did a pilot in Romania a couple of years ago,

Tom Salemi (29:38):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Dan Volz (29:38):

We've got four or five countries that were leaning into right now working with ministries of health to establish very basic stroke protocol. But to your question, much of our growth is going to come from... We'll get our bit of share gain for sure and when you're a technology leader like we are, that's certainly... Our intent is to make sure we get a bit of share, but we're leaning pretty heavily in some market development. And in many respects, raising the tide for a lot of boats other than us, but that's our obligation.

Tom Salemi (30:17):

And final question. I've asked this about everyone, Medtronic obviously has gone through a significant reorganization. I think most everyone else I've talked to have had a before and after perspective, having led at least the core of a similar business. You are coming into this Neurovascular business, new as its president. How do you approach taking an entity that's just been sort of reshaped and sort of understanding where it is, understanding where it needs to go and kind of leading it forward. What's your process as the president of Neurovascular?

Dan Volz (30:51):

Yeah, it's the organizational change I think has been really good for all of us. We were within a group structure before, which had some benefits as well. And this is just a little different in that you've got 20 operating units that are running standalone businesses, as opposed to being a part of the group structure. Now we do have our portfolio leads like Brett Wall, who is my boss and he's making resource allocation decisions across the Medtronic enterprise. So I love, within the operating unit model that we have right now that I have prompted back responsibility for the entire business. I get to plough back as much as I like into R&D and that percentage is the highest that it's ever been. So I'm really happy about that, but it also requires that I look across our businesses and with my colleagues, the presidents from the other operating units look for synergies between us as well.

Dan Volz (32:00):

And that isn't necessarily a function of our structure as much as it is a function of leadership coming together and saying, "Hey, I think we could put our resources together in this way." So I like doing that too and certainly is as the largest med tech company in the world, and with a collection of assets across our operating units, that's really unique. It's in our best interest to see where we can try and bring those technologies together, so that's a lot of fun too. I love running my business, but I also really enjoy working with my colleagues to see where we might be better off together.

Tom Salemi (32:37):

Excellent. And I know I said final question, but I did have one thing I wanted to ask about. I was just looking at your LinkedIn profile and I do this all the time. You were an entrepreneur in residence at the Yale Office of Cooperative Research. I'm not sure. It says you started February and you still are. You've moved across country maybe that's harder to do now, but how did that come to be? And is that an interest of yours leading smaller efforts are helping to develop innovative efforts.

Dan Volz (33:03):

Yeah, it really is. And I get a lot of joy out of working on things that either aren't there yet or could be better than they are.

Tom Salemi (33:14):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Dan Volz (33:15):

And so I was hooked up with some folks at Yale who run the federal Office of Cooperative Research and they have a stable of healthcare executives that in most respects are, Phone-a-Friend. So when their physician community, or their student community has startup concepts, they look for industry executives to have a conversation with them and I love it. It really scratches an itch for me, it's a lot of fun to talk about the things that people are thinking about, the ideas out there are just mind boggling, particularly coming out of an institution like Yale. So that's what it is, it's a volunteer role. And one that I really enjoy a lot and no, there's no issue being across the country. It's all Zoom and phone calls anyway and once in a while, I participate in a panel with a number of other executives and we score some of the entrance and the ideas and all that kind of stuff. But I've been at it for less than a year and it's a lot of fun and an organization that's filled with really good, smart people.

Tom Salemi (34:32):

That's great. I suspect you'll be getting a lot of phone calls going forward as president of Neurovascular, lot to talk about, so. Thanks, I really enjoyed the conversation. Thanks for joining us on the podcast.

Dan Volz (34:42):

It is my pleasure Tom. Thanks.

Tom Salemi (34:47):

Well, that is a wrap. Thanks again to Dan Volz for joining us on this podcast. Thank you Resonetics for sponsoring this podcast and thanks to you, our listeners, for listening to this podcast. Do us a few more favors would you? Please follow or subscribe to this podcast on all the major podcast channels? You can find those on Amazon, Google, Spotify, Apple, etc. You subscribe or follow this podcast, we'll have future episodes sent directly to your listening device so you'll be sure not to miss a one. You can also find these podcasts as well as our other podcasts by Sox Weekly on

Tom Salemi (35:24):

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