NeuroMod’s Anderson loops us into closed loop, DBS, spinal cord stim, Vanta and other key advances

July 7, 2021

Dave Anderson, president of the neuromodulation business unit, reports on the advances in neuromodulation technologies including deep brain and spinal cord stimulation.

He updates on the CareGuidePro, a new app developed in partnership with Higgs Boson Health, a physician-led digital health group. Anderson also shed light on the breaking news about Vanta. Anderson, who assumed the leadership of the neuromodulation group last March, explains how the group will grow through internal innovation and possibly acquisitions.

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Tom Salemi (00:00):

Hey, well this is Tom Salmi of DeviceTalks. Welcome to our newest member of the DeviceTalks podcast family. It's called MedtronicTalks. Our constant search to find new ways to bring new insights in the medtech industry led us to the fine, fine folks in Medtronic. They've agreed to make their senior leaders available to us and to you. In each episode we'll discuss the opportunities and challenges facing one of medtech's clear leaders, so you'll have an inside view on what makes Medtronic go. We'll ask the questions, Medtronic will provide the answers, and our great network of sponsors makes it all possible. So sit back, hop on a treadmill, take the dog for a walk, whatever you do when you listen to a great podcast and let's listen to how Medtronic is getting the job done. Let's go.

Tom Salemi (00:45):

Hey everyone. This is Tom. So let me welcome to the MedtronicTalks podcast. It's great to have you here. We got to talk about neuromodulation. I love talking about neuromodulation. It's one of my first interests in medtech. I'll get into it in the podcast, but I got to speak with Dave Anderson. Dave is the president of the Neuromodulation group at Medtronic. We talked about a lot of their great efforts that are underway, talked about deep brain stimulation, spinal cord stimulation, care guide, closed loop. We covered a lot of ground and I'm very, very grateful to Dave for his time. So I'm sure you'll enjoy this conversation and this update on neuromodulation. But first I'd like to bring in our sponsor, Elkem Silicones. First, I'm going to speak with Michael Goglia. Mike is a healthcare market manager at Elkem. Mike, tell us about Elkem Silicones.

Mike Goglia (01:37):

Yeah, sure thing. Thanks Tom. I'm glad to be a part of the MedtronicTalks podcast and happy to be supporting this initiative. Elkem Silicones has been in business over 75 years, originally as [inaudible 00:01:47] and then Rhodia, then Bluestar, and now Elkem Silicones. We consolidated with Elkem, which is a silicon mining operation. With this acquisition and integration, we became the number two leader in terms of capacity within silicones globally. As an integrated supplier, this means that we produce our own silicon metal, which is a key raw material in silicon production. I feel this is key to the medical device industry, as it gives us security of supply and offers peace of mind to our healthcare and medical device customers, to ensure that if product gets tight, they can rely on us for supply moving forward. In terms of the products we supply to the medical device market, we have our Silbione product offering, which consists of silicone LSRs, silicone HCRs or high consistency, rubber, silicone RTVs, silicone adhesives, as well as fluids and primers and other complimentary products to support the medtech and healthcare industry.

Tom Salemi (02:40):

That's great. We'll learn more about Elkem a little later in the podcast from Mike and one of his colleagues. If you'd like to find out more on the web, go to That's Now let's begin our conversation. Well, Dave Anderson, welcome to the podcast.

Dave Anderson (03:01):

Thanks Tom. Great to be here.

Tom Salemi (03:03):

I'm excited to hear about the neuro med business. I'm kind of a neuro med nerd. I've always thought it was one of the cooler sectors in medtech. I've covered NeuroPace back in the day, I think it was probably the first one in just the thought that you could do that to the human body and, and chief therapeutic results. That's kind of the sci-fi stuff that you hope to get to someday with medtech. So great. I'm looking forward to learning a lot, but first let's learn a little bit about you. I always like to understand how people found their way into the medtech industry.

Dave Anderson (03:33):

Well, you know it's an interesting one because engineering undergrad and as part of my undergrad, needed to get an internship. And I remember a big decision, which was an internship between a med device company out kind of in the middle of nowhere or a defense company in San Diego on the beach. As a 20 year old, that was a tough decision, but I was very motivated by the impact I could make in med device. And so took that one and never looked back. I've been in medtech ever since.

Tom Salemi (04:03):

That's amazing. So what was the company? Can you...

Dave Anderson (04:05):

At the time it was Advanced Cardiovascular Systems. Today, it's Abbott Vascular, if you're familiar with the history,

Tom Salemi (04:12):

But yep, absolutely. So that was Fred and the group. That's great. You're the second person I've interviewed from there in the last two weeks. That's one of those companies that just has a great pedigree and gene pool. So let's talk a bit about... Well, how did you work your way to Medtronic? It wasn't through acquisitions then, this was a deliberate move.

Dave Anderson (04:36):

Yeah. You know, interesting. Most of my career was competing against Medtronic. So at one level there's admiration, at another level, being the challenger, I wanted to beat Medtronic, but I always had tremendous respect that Medtronic made these markets. They did the foundational work and then as a challenger, you're just always trying to come in and can I do it better? You know, can I do it faster? Can I come up with improving outcomes somewhere? But I did have a point in my career where there was the opportunity, really the reality of that, the role that I would have needed a change. And so that gave me a chance to kind of reset and Medtronic, obviously was top of the list as, hey, Mission driven, committed to the diseases that we're in. And you, as you said, somebody who's also a neuro tech geek, if you will, there's no better place to be.

Tom Salemi (05:25):

So have you been in some form of neuro tech your entire career?

Dave Anderson (05:29):

No, actually most of my career was in cardiovascular. So beginning with advanced cardiovascular systems, then I kind of grew up through the arrhythmia management part of the business. I had a role in my career where I had all of our implantable technology at St Jude Medical, which was both the cardiac rhythm management and the neuromodulation. And so that was really my entry point into neuromodulation and how I look at it is there's just more problems still to solve and more opportunity and more unmet needs and diseases to treat. So I feel like, look, they're both still great, exciting areas, cardiovascular and neuroscience, but we have more work we can do in neuroscience.

Tom Salemi (06:03):

Tell me about your operating unit.

Dave Anderson (06:06):

Yeah. So neuromodulation comprises three different businesses. So brain modulation, which is kind of self-explanatory, all neuro stimulation in the brain. Implantable pain, which includes both spinal cord stimulation today and our drug pump business. But you can think of it as any solution for pain that would be implantable. And interventional pain, which you can think of very simplistically as all of our pain therapies that are not [implanted] so it includes things like ablation, kyphoplasty, but procedural intervention. So that's from a business lens. And then from a disease lens, the primary diseases are chronic pain, movement disorders, epilepsy, but we are in the midst of looking at new therapy alternatives.

Tom Salemi (06:48):

Let's back up and, and talk a bit about the state of neuro med. I mean, as I indicated, it's been part of medtech for a long, time for decades. We're certainly have in Medtronic longer than that for back into the '70s. Where are we in sort of the abilities of the technology that we have in neuro med? Are we at a inflection point where we're actually getting some traction, getting some critical mass and really seeing this as a widely adopted therapeutic going forward?

Dave Anderson (07:21):

I think we're absolutely at an inflection point. We still have a lot to do for adopt, but let's talk about the inflection point. So as you mentioned going back to the '70s for pain, going back to the '80s for deep brain stimulation, basically we took the electrical stimulation paradigm and moved it to neuroscience and neuromodulation and the founding of those therapies, our understanding was very early, of course. So we took some of the same types of therapeutic solutions. Like if you look at pacing, you're pacing at a constant rate. And that was sort of our beginning of therapy for either spinal cord stimulation or deep brain stimulation. What's the frequency that we're pinging at if you will? But as you then look at over time, what we've been learning, I would say most of our innovation at Medtronic has been focused on making the platform better.

Dave Anderson (08:13):

So making the technology smaller, longer lasting, smarter. Where that's smarter part is leading to. So what we've been very focused on is adding things like sensing capability and sensors to our device. To understand the signals in the brain, to understand the signals of the nervous system. And with that is unlocked insights to being able to actually have therapies that are more adaptive, more unique, and we can get into those details. But that's where the inflection point I see is now is moving from sort of technology innovation to therapy innovation. And then as that therapy innovation becomes very personalized and improves outcomes, we can then think about what other diseases should we be treating with it? So that's kind of the arc of innovation as I see it is.

Tom Salemi (08:57):


Dave Anderson (08:58):

Founding the technology, making the technology better, making the therapy better. And then what else should we be treating?

Tom Salemi (09:04):

Help me understand. What does therapy innovation look like? Walk me through that again.

Dave Anderson (09:10):

Yeah. Let's take it by disease. So if you look at deep brain stimulation as an example, again, there was research done, let's take Parkinson's disease to figure out what's the right frequency to in a sense, pump the brakes on the signals in your brain that are causing this movement disorder. And how do we best modulate that, we'll call it at a single frequency. But what we're doing, we've added sensing capability. What we've been learning from some of our early reach research with adaptive DBS is that what a patient needs during motion is very different than what a patient needs during rest. And how can we adjust the therapy to actually match the movement the patient is undergoing such that we have a really personalized therapy?

Dave Anderson (09:56):

That's an example for deep brain stimulation. If you take spinal cord stimulation, if you kind of follow the space that the original history was finding this frequency and doing what's called paresthesia mapping, where you're looking at where the pain location is, and being able to block the pain is the basic concept. But what we're learning is it's much more complex than that. Again, there is the adaptive reality of, you know, is a patient at rest or are they moving? And then there's the pain network itself, which we realize someone with chronic pain is continually getting that pain amplified. How do we reduce the network effect? How do we treat the underlying condition? So things like our DTM, which is multiple stimulation sites, multiple frequencies is a smarter therapy.

Tom Salemi (10:42):

So how do you move into bringing this new technology's new way of providing therapy into an area that may not use medtech at all, or certainly may not use this type of medtech? What is the challenge and what is sort of the indoctrination or the education process like to sell physicians on not only the therapeutic benefits, but also finding a way for this technology that's different than their pills or whatever else they may giving, fitting that into the therapeutic treatment. What is that like and is that challenging?

Dave Anderson (11:14):

It is challenging.

Tom Salemi (11:15):

We're going to take a break from our conversation with Dave Anderson to bring in Elkem Silicones. I'm back here with Mike Goglia. Mike, tell me, how have silicon materials evolved to support neuromodulation development and how does Elkem support the marketplace?

Mike Goglia (11:37):

Yeah, so since Elkem decided to join the biocompatible range of silicones for greater than 30 day implant devices back in 2014, we wanted to develop a line that was focused on high performance and high quality materials to support the advancement in neuromodulation devices and medical devices in general. Many times device manufacturers will turn to legacy materials that are already in their portfolio. These may have performance and processing limitations that newer materials can solve, but we really see neuromodulation as a great opportunity for higher performer materials to help advance the design of these device as alternatives to medication. Whether it be pain management, stroke treatment, brain stimulation, et cetera, we can offer high purity silicones for injection molding of various parts, silicones for lead protection and biocompatible adhesives to bond different substrates together.

Mike Goglia (12:28):

We truly try to have a consultive approach in our support of the healthcare industry and solve unmet needs that are out there for device designers. We are currently in the process of launching a low temperature cure adhesive to support bonding of substrates that have temperature limitations, battery packs or other plastics that can't handle high temperature. And this was a direct development driven by customer action and supporting their unmet needs. We are also very close to launching a next generation conductive silicone polymer. That could be a great advancement for neuromodulation devices, and offer some, some performance advantages that aren't available on the market today.

Tom Salemi (13:03):

Thanks Mike. And now I'd like to bring in Bob Waitt. Bob is the global business manager of healthcare at Elkem. Bob, Elkem is a global organization. How does it support multinational companies in their medical device development?

Bob Waitt (13:17):

Thanks Tom. So at Elkem, we strive to be a total solution provider. So that means we are not only providing innovative products, but also the support and services that go along with that. We're very fortunate to have very talented and diverse commercial technical and regulatory team that are located strategically around the world. This enables us to support our customers however and wherever they may need it. For example, if we're working with an American based medical device company that is looking to either manufacture or market their device in another region of the world, let's say Europe or China, for example, we have the ability to supply locally produced product, as well as provide support from our local regulatory experts, whether that be dealing with requirements of the European MDR and/or reach or dealing with requirements of the NMPA in China.

Tom Salemi (14:12):

Well thanks, Mike and Bob, and thank you Elkem for sponsoring this episode of MedtronicTalks. For more information about Elkem go to

Tom Salemi (14:24):

What is that like? And is that challenging?

Dave Anderson (14:26):

It is challenging. And it's multifactorial. I'll pick a couple that come to mind quickly. The first I'd say is evidence. So you need evidence that shows this outcome is going to be superior to other forms of treatment. So if you take our latest pain therapy, the DTM algorithm I shared with you, we were able to show that more than two thirds of patients had a 80% reduction in pain, and that then had a superiority approval from FDA. So the idea that, okay, I can reduce my pain by 80%, for patients living with chronic pain, let's say if their only treatment prior was opioids, that kind of relief and being drug free is just an incredible promise.

Dave Anderson (15:11):

That being said, they've had a long journey to get to that point. You know, trying steroids, trying injections, trying ablation, they may have tried multiple interventions. And that's why to me, the second big piece is to be earlier in the care continuum with [inaudible]. And so a big addition to our strategy that we're focus is being earlier in the care continuum, having solutions early in the care continuum so that in a sense we're with that patient in their whole care journey, and we can help them decide when it's time to advance to another therapy.

Tom Salemi (15:43):

You hear a lot of different therapies that involve neuromodulation or ablation of nerves and it's always pitched as sort of for the drug resistant case of this or that. Like this, this has to be the last gasp or the last attempt to help someone. Are we going to move into a spot where people are going to be given a choice? Like, you can have the stimulation therapy, or you can take pharmaceutical. Do you see this industry evolving to that point?

Dave Anderson (16:13):

The simple answer is yes. You know, again, it takes a combination of evidence, time and for therapies to become less and less invasive. And that's another dimension we're working on is how do we both participate early in the care continuum, but even the devices we have, how do we make them smaller, easier implanted? So our goal is to absolutely, we take pain as an example, be the solution partner for patients that can reduce dependency on opioids, for example, as an alternative solution faster. And we think by both having better solutions like the DTM I mentioned, but also earlier solutions, so we're in that care journey with them that, that we can help that overall penetration.

Tom Salemi (16:57):

What is your interaction like with patients? Is it similar to your diabetes business, where someone gets one of your pumps and they're sort of connected to someone on staff who helps them modulate, regulate, keep the thing running? Do you have that sort of an ongoing relationship with patients? Is that the model you use?

Dave Anderson (17:17):

I would say it's sort of in between the diabetes model, which is very patient intensive, and the cardiac rhythm model, which is not that intensive.

Tom Salemi (17:25):

Right. Right.

Dave Anderson (17:25):

So we typically are very involved with initial programming, both in deep brain stimulation and spinal cord stimulation. So we have people working closely with patients to optimize that initial programming. The better we get at both smart systems that adapt and systems when that initial programming is giving them incredible relief, probably reduces the need to continue to interact frequently. But I'd say we have a history of interacting pretty frequently because it did require a technical professional to continually optimize when they're the losing efficacy of their treatment.

Tom Salemi (18:02):

If you're hiring people, what types of people make a good neuromod team?

Dave Anderson (18:08):

Well, there's a core that I'll start with that you absolutely have to have, which has a combination of biomedical engineers, electrical engineers, mechanical, software. So that core is always true. If the question's more what's emerging as a newer need, data science, absolutely. As we think about the future of our therapies will be more and more personalized, adaptive, that's a combination of human intelligence and artificial intelligence. And so more of that skillset, which is kind of a interface between data science and biomedical engineering. That's more where we're seeing a growing need and we expect that to continue. We'll still have the core that you need because we're a medical device that has all those aspects to it.

Tom Salemi (18:50):

Let's talk a bit about your pipeline. You've had some recent approvals. The FDA recently approved your SenSight™ directional lead system for DBS. Start with that. Tell us a bit about what that means for patients and for Medtronic. And then maybe we can go backwards a bit and talk about some other new products you're bringing on the market.

Dave Anderson (19:09):

Absolutely. So I may go back up one step with that, and that is that our most recent offering before SenSight™ was what we call Percept™. And it's our deep brain stimulator that has sensing capability. And we felt that's the key to really unlocking personalized therapy. So as we developed a directional lead system and ours is SenSight™, competitors also have directional lead systems, but they're not designed to be compatible with sensing. So we knew we had to make a directional lead system that's also sensing enabled, which that's a little bit of a higher bar. So as we launch SenSight™ now, we have the really only sensing enabled system that also has this directional technology, which means it has more electrodes, can be more precise programming of where you're trying to direct the energy. And we've launched that in Europe recently, and we've just recently received approval in the U.S. So we're just now launching in the U.S. So we see it as an exciting, you mentioned inflection point where now we have sensing capability on the best technology platform that can help understand how we can make these smart algorithms of the future, that personalized care.

Tom Salemi (20:19):

So would this count, is it a closed loop system? Is that capable of sensing?

Dave Anderson (20:25):

That's a great leap there, and that's exactly what we're studying. So we are in a clinical trial for closed loop capability. I can't yet claim it because we have to prove it with evidence, but the research indicates and that's our intent is to have a closed loop system.

Tom Salemi (20:39):

Is having closed loop capabilities... Is what you need for neuromodulation really for these devices really to tend to themselves?

Dave Anderson (20:47):

It is. And we're doing that first with deep brain stimulation, with the SenSight™ plus Percept™ , we're doing it next with spinal cord stimulation. So what we call ECAPs, but it's a closed loop system for pains. And as we then do this and can prove that we have really superior outcomes and can adapt to all the patient's needs, our goal then kind of expands to be, again, what new therapy should we be focusing this on? So that's how we see innovation is we've made the technology, now let's improve the therapy, let's make it closed loop. And then what should we be treating next?

Tom Salemi (21:24):

Interesting. So what are some other recent approvals that we should know about and highlight?

Dave Anderson (21:29):

So another recent one is in the pain side, heard about DTM. We're kind of a year into that now, but we're still just continuing to show outstanding evidence. We had an approval of something called CareGuidePro™, which is a patient app. So I would put that in the category of making our systems easier to use. And so by having an app that can help navigate the care journey, and then ultimately that app, patients will feed in information on how their treatment's going. That helps close the loop as well, because you're getting real time feedback, not just from the device, but from the patient. And then approval that is hot off the press, we just got it an hour before we're talking, is our product called Vanta™, which is our recharge free system. Recharge free basically is for... It's a system that enables it to be easier to use for patients that don't want, let's call the burden or the hassle of charging.

Dave Anderson (22:21):

The reason why we've been more focused on rechargeable systems up until now is it gives you more options for your therapy. So this idea of therapy innovation, you have more higher energy consumption options when you can recharge the device. To be recharge free, you need to be more efficient in what therapies you use, but we think that's still an important category, one that our technology is not at the same level in the past, and with this approval we'll have the best technology and industry on our recharge free platform.

Tom Salemi (22:49):

And how long is the life of that battery?

Dave Anderson (22:52):

Roughly five years. It depends on energy usage. So if you use a higher energy therapy, it will be less. If you use a lower energy, it'll be more.

Tom Salemi (23:00):

And what is that after five years? How is that? What does replacement look like?

Dave Anderson (23:05):

Basically, you only need to replace the battery if you will, meaning in the device you already have the electrodes placed. So it's a simpler procedure than the initial implant.

Tom Salemi (23:16):

Are there other areas where you're seeking non-rechargeable technology to help bolster an existing product line?

Dave Anderson (23:21):

So I shared a little bit about for our latest approval and launch will be a recharge free system, but we're also working on a next gen rechargeable system, and that's the one that will have closed loop therapy for spinal cord stimulation. So next year you will see from us or submitting later this year, a product that has closed loop capability and not only will that closed loop capability, but it combines it with the best algorithms like DTM. If you're following the research out there, there's others that are working on closed loop, but with more antiquated therapy algorithms. We're going to be the only ones having a combination of closed loop and the most efficacious therapies as well.

Tom Salemi (24:02):

That's great. Well, let's wrap up by looking forward a bit. You alluded at the top of the discussion that you're looking at other therapy areas. I assume you're looking at other technologies. Where is this segment of medtech going?

Dave Anderson (24:15):

Neuromodulation is fundamentally utilizing the nervous system, treating diseases and restoring back to a normal state. That's the premise. And if you just think of that premise for a moment as an alternative to let's say a pharmacological therapy that has a whole body effect, neuromodulation has the potential for precision medicine, for personalized medicine, to really restore your body to the way it was designed. Now, if you think about that for a moment, we have today movement disorders, chronic pain, what I'll start with is where we're very adjacent clear areas. So if you take chronic pain, there's areas that today are not yet indicated, like patients that are not eligible for surgery or patients with upper limit neck pain, or patients with diabetes that have chronic pain. So these are areas that today we do not have labeling or reimbursement for, but with evidence can show that. And so we are under clinical trials in all of those spaces.

Dave Anderson (25:13):

So those would be examples of just really close, adjacent spaces. As you think of whole entire disease areas and you look at other companies that are in neuromodulation, for example, there's many opportunities that I won't yet share specifically because of confidentiality, but think of like inflammatory diseases, for example, and there's patients, there's companies treating that with neuromodulation. It's using the nervous system to reduce the inflammatory response. Or if you think of we're treating pain in diabetes patients, can we treat the underlying condition of diabetes? Can we improve glycemic control? Can we improve circulation? So where I'm going for a moment is if you think of the concept that you can use the nervous system to restore function, there is a lot of opportunity, and we're in the process right now of deciding where our next big bets will be. So I've shared with you where we absolutely are, because it's adjacent, but we're exploring many others as well.

Tom Salemi (26:11):

And what could that exploration lead to? Are you primarily looking to develop new technologies in house? Or are you looking externally at the many startups? Can we use a bio electronic medicine term? We haven't really talked -

Dave Anderson (26:26):

That's the right term, yeah.

Tom Salemi (26:29):

How do you differentiate between that and traditional neuro medicine? Is it just a matter of having a new label or is there a distinction?

Dave Anderson (26:36):

So the broadening the term to bio electronic medicine helps those that are, let's say coming more from a typical pharma disease background. Think of it as this is actually trying to achieve the same effect, but it's using it electrically to the nervous system rather than chemically through a pharmacologic. So I think the simple answers for those in the space, you could use them interchangeably, but when people think of neuromodulation, they think of it more of its history. Of oh, okay, for Parkinson's and for pain rather than thinking, no, that's just the beginnings of really a different way of treating disease.

Dave Anderson (27:13):

The other part of your question was about in-house versus acquisition. The simple answer is both. And we both build and by. In particular, when we look at it outside, we're looking for those that have, let's say either advanced a clinical research area that we have not yet studied, or perhaps they have a technology like a miniaturization technology or something that we do not yet have. And then what we'll tend to do is acquire that, but then improve it. So we have a lot of capabilities too. For example, we think the best micro electronics capabilities, the best battery capabilities. So that's the buy mindset is where either it's a disease state we're not yet focused on, or it's a technology we don't yet have, but then there's absolutely, we're building two. And so as we assess these new therapies, we'll be doing both.

Tom Salemi (28:01):

Is it easier as a business to a acquire a new company? I guess it's kind of an operational nuts and bolts question, but how do you foresee going forward in being able to initiate a strategic acquisition of a reasonable size? Are you feeling like it's more streamlined than it had been, or does it feel similar, but familiar to how it had been?

Dave Anderson (28:21):

Well, let me start a little bit at a higher level of how I think the new operating model helps us and then I'll get it specific to [crosstalk].

Tom Salemi (28:27):


Dave Anderson (28:29):

I think the biggest thing is the mindset. So an example, acting boldly. You look at our founders, they acted boldly, but sometimes an incumbent can stop acting boldly. They can start being a little more defensive and protecting rather than be bold. So even just the mindset shift to say let's act boldly. To me, that really, I feel it's like a tailwind for these new therapies. There's no doubt we've talked about new therapies in the past, and there might have been more resistance to it because it felt like we got to put our investment into protecting what we have versus something new.

Dave Anderson (29:02):

So just the idea of acting boldly as a new mantra is a big tailwind. Specific to M&A, you know, I look at it as we've already been, I think of a mindset to move quickly on those that we need to. And so I feel like that should be at least as good. It may actually offer advantages top, being in a structure where we're intentionally being bold and we're intentionally empowering businesses to take on these new opportunities. So I think it can only help, but I think on the M&A side, I've never felt held back in the past. I think the biggest shift is this mindset shift.

Tom Salemi (29:38):

Excellent. All right. Well, it's exciting stuff. You've got a lot of great news. Thanks for breaking the Vanta™ news on the podcast although I'm sure by the time this comes out, it will have already been broken, but still it's nice to get that thrill and thanks for joining us on the podcast.

Dave Anderson (29:54):

Thank you, Tom. I really enjoyed it.

Tom Salemi (29:58):

Well, that is a wrap. Thanks for joining on this episode of the MedtronicTalks podcast. Once again, my name is Tom Salemi. I'm editorial director at DeviceTalks. DeviceTalks is the producer of the MedtronicTalks podcast, and another podcast called DeviceTalks Weekly.

Tom Salemi (30:15):

You can go to You can check out our podcast, DeviceTalksWeekly. You can check out episodes of the MedtronicTalks podcast, can also learn about our other many great products, including our 2022 schedule of in-person DeviceTalks meetings. We'd love to see you there as well. So once again, thank you for joining us on the MedtronicTalks podcast, thanks to Medtronic for working with us to make this happen, and of course, the thanks to our sponsor Elkem Silicones for making it all possible. Tune in next time, we'll have another great episode of the MedtronicTalks podcast waiting for you.